Monday 15 April 2013

My reivew of Chapter two of The Dawkins Proof


This part one of two for this chapter.  My friend Patrick disagrees with me about this book and I want him to  have room to place his comments next to this post.  He wanted to comment on my review of chapter one but his comment was too long for Blogger to allow.  He then did his commenting on a Wordpress blog post of mine.  I hope that by breaking up my review of chapter two, he will have room to comment here.





Patrick and I are friends and in no way in a teacher-student relationship, but this is my blog and he is 'just a commenter'.  I worry that there may be an asymmetry in our power here and that may affect the discussion. Still, he has agreed to use this forum.  If a perceived imbalance of power occurs, I hope we find a way to work it out.


Still to come: Part two of chapter two -this is becoming too long and my review are likely to become much shorter.  Review of chapter three (this one is about evolution so I suspect it will be long as well), then a 'tangents' post.  Patrick and I, over the course of our arguments, leave the book behind on occasion and I want a place to keep these digressions without losing focus on the book.


This pattern should continue to the end of the book: three chapter review posts and a tangents post...


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This chapter is titled Powerful arguments.


Barns starts by arguing against Dawkins' claim that Christian areas of the US are more violent or have more crime. He feels that the standards Dawkins uses may not show what Dawkins thinks they show. Barns, without defending or offering any counter claims has, for the moment, clouded the issue enough that I cannot rebut him. I do have a copy of The God Delusion and will have to see what else Dawkins said on the subject.

“Oppressed Atheists”
In The God Delusion, Dawkins claimed that atheists in the US are oppressed.  Barns disagrees and offers counter evidence of Christians being persecuted.  His first example is of Dr. Michael Dini, a professor of biology, who required his students to affirm that they supported evolution.
Barns asks, “But what if the origin of human species did involve God?  That idea was ruled out of the question by Dini...”

This is an example of Barns mistaking his version of Christianity for all of Christianity..  Dini himself is a devout Christian.  From the New York Times.
Another student, Brent Lawlis, 21, from Midland, Tex., said he hoped to become an orthopedic surgeon and had had no trouble obtaining a letter of recommendation from Dr. Dini. ''I'm a Christian, but there's too much biological evidence to throw out evolution,'' he said.”
and:
''He's [Dindi] a devout Catholic,'' said Greg Rogers, 36, a pre-med student from Lubbock. ''He's mentioned it in discussion groups.''
Mr. Rogers, who returned to college for a second degree and who said his beliefs aligned with Dr. Dini's, added: ''I believe in God and evolution. I believe that evolution was the tool that brought us about. To deny the theory of evolution is, to me, like denying the law of gravity. In science, a theory is about as close to a fact as you can get.''
Perhaps Barns is worried about scientifically illiterate Christians.  He seems to be defending the perpetuation of ignorance, rather than Christianity itself.

Barns then looks at  Richard Sternberg who published an article favouring the theory of ID.  Even before we dig into the facts of the case, note that ID proponents claim their work is not religious so I am not sure how attacking it is an attack on religion. Barns is probably correct in connecting ID to Creationism; that is, he is not lying but ID proponents are.

Barns repeats Sternberg’s claim that “attempts were made to force him out of his position” as editor of the journal.  And yet, he had already handed in his resignation letter six months ago. See Expelled Exposed.  His actual work in choosing who would review the article is also in question.

I found this comment of Barns interesting. “No doubt Souder is a supporter of ID - he would hardly be pursuing investigation of this issue if he were an opponent.”  I don’t know; I think many people are able to recognize injustice even when it is done by members of one’s own group.


In Wealthy Theists, Barns looks at Dawkins’ discussion of the .“Templeton Prize”
“Yet he never mentions funding awarded to atheists.  The expenditure of the Templeton Foundation is insignificant compared to the vast state of funding given to university scientists.”

After connecting Intelligent design to Creationism, Barns should be careful of discussing the Templeton Foundation.
The Templeton Foundation, a major supporter of projects seeking to reconcile science and religion, says that after providing a few grants for conferences and courses to debate intelligent design, they asked proponents to submit proposals for actual research.
"They never came in," said Charles L. Harper Jr., senior vice president at the Templeton Foundation, who said that while he was skeptical from the beginning, other foundation officials were initially intrigued and later grew disillusioned.
"From the point of view of rigor and intellectual seriousness, the intelligent design people don't come out very well in our world of scientific review," he said.


Back to Barns and funding for atheists: “According to Dawkins, these scientists are largely atheistic and they are free to use that funding(...) to pursue their science based on an atheistic philosophy.”

First, clearly, funding to universities is not the same as funding for atheists or “atheist philosophy”. Secondly, what precisely is ‘atheist philosophy’? Is there any science that feels required to add “...and with the grace of God,...” to every conclusion?  Newton was famously devout but his equations and laws do not require any action from God for them to work. Atheists and theists alike can use them.  Even Dawkins admits to not being completely an atheist and would agree that no scientific experiment disproves God.  I think he would say, “God is never disproven but neither is he ever required.”

Tuesday 9 April 2013

The Dawkins Proof Delusion


I think Dawkins’ views on evolution are, as my limited understanding allows, correct. While I generally agree with his views and talking points for atheism, I am not in nearly as complete agreement and I do see that he is not always consistent. For example, he once suggested that fantasy books might lead children into irrational thinking but also, I think, wrote a glowing forward to Philip Pullman’s The Golden Compass.


Barns' The Dawkins Proof is an attempt at rebutting The God Delusion.  One major problem he has is that he is one the types of people that Dawkins chides mainstream Christians for accepting.  That is, Barns is a creationist, and so at least one of his foundational claims is already torn away.  I would have significant trouble attacking the views of a Roman Catholic or member of the United Church of Canada as their views, in many respects, match mine -and, as far as evolution is concerned, Dawkins' as well.

Below you will find my general complaints about and thoughts about the book and a more specific review of Chapter one (Nothing Beyond the Natural Physical World).  I will post my comments on later chapters as I prepare on them.  I hope to better organize these thoughts but I was concerned the friend who suggested I read the book might get tired of waiting.  If you really want further introduction, look at a previous post.

Barns has a number of recurring problems:
1) He is a lumper: He counts all Christianity as having the same views -including, apparently Creationism.  I am not sure if he is a YE or OE Creationist.
He discusses “The Christian Viewpoint” but there is no “The Christian Viewpoint”. My particular interest is in evolution and there are Christians who are Evolutionists, Old Earth Creationists, Young Earth Creationists and even Old Universe- Young Earth Creationists.  There are Christians who feel Saturday is the Sabbath and those who do not keep it holy are breaking a Commandment....


2) He has a good definition of evolution but doesn’t understand what it means.  Only a few pages after he gives a definition he seems to have forgotten it.


3) He doesn’t define things.  I am specifically referring to ‘Mind’ and ‘rational thought’ or maybe ‘logical thought’
Regarding “Rational Thought” and “logic”: He thinks that because the concepts of logic or rational thinking are  immaterial, atheists cannot believe or use them and still be consistent in their atheism.

Are imaginary numbers “immaterial”?  Their name alone suggest they are not real, yet they have real usefulness in mathematics.

4) He thinks ‘physics’ explains all phenomena - or that atheists do or think it should.

5) His evidence and claims for God come exclusively from the Bible.  That can be a valid source but it needs both internal and external confirmation.  In other texts, internal confirmation requires two parts. First a quote from a character, “I am strong”. and second, a described instance of the character being strong.  In the Bible, God is described as perfect and merciful but also as driving Adam and Eve out of Eden in a rage and destroying most of humanity.  Considering that he made Adam and Eve, the fact that he became angry with their actions is a logical as me being angry with a wood carving I made and found wanting.

External confirmation relates to finding supporting evidence for the Bible’s claims in other sources.  This kind of confirmation can be challenging.  Yes, Egypt is mentioned in the Bible and in other sources, but London is mentioned in Harry Potter and in other sources.  No, it is the extraordinary claims that need support and in many cases such support does not exist.

These two forms of confirmation are entirely absent from The Dawkins Proof.

6) Three levels of defense: I don’t think Barns successfully meets the first level much less the next two.  These levels are (weak): show atheism is wrong, (middle) show religion is right, and (strong) show (my form of) Christianity is right.  As we can see from my final parenthesis, there may be four levels here.

Barns is a creationist and writes as if he is describing the Christian view when a large number of Christians, possibly a majority, accept evolution.  Indeed, the most famous Christians-who-are-also-respected-scientists seem to be Catholics. I am referring to Kenneth Brown (possibly least famous of the group but notably an expert witness as the Dover Trial), Guy Consolmagno (Vatican astronomer, an interview with him is at the bottom of the link) and Francis Collins (Genome Project leader) and their views of the natural world are practically those of atheists.  Here is my example:

When we look at the phenomena of lightning strikes, we cannot say that all lightning is always unguided and always controlled by local meteorology.  All lightning that has been artificially created or that has occurred in locations with observational equipment has appeared to follow rules.  Two views that have no practical difference are 1) Atheistic - lightning is an entirely natural event and entirely explainable within materialistic viewpoints and 2) God made the universe so lightning can happen and can choose- but might not- to influence when and where it strikes and if He has done so, has done so within the expectations of modern meteorology. God is not necessarily absent but neither is he necessarily required.

1) Nothing beyond the natural, physical world
Non-material things such as God, spirit, mind, Laws, justice do not exist...”
This is a recurring theme for Barns. Somehow he equates the existence of laws or mind with the existence for God.  Laws are immaterial, sure, but no-one claims that legal-type laws (not scientific laws) have real existence.  They are agreements between groups of people but are not the same around the world or even viewed the same way by people even inside of one country.
Scientific Laws do exist but seen as descriptions of reality, not controls that existed before reality.
A huge problem for Barns here is “mind”.  He offers no definition for the concept I am uncertain what exactly I need to argue.  I do understand the idea of mind/body dualism but think it is known to be flawed.  We, Barns and I, need to read Wikipedia and Mirriam-Webster on the subject, but although I am not an expert, and perhaps nobody really is, it is clear that brain damage or various drugs affect mind.  I loved “sleights of mind” a book about stage magic and directing consciousness -this is not mind exactly, but most people don’t understand their own consciousness either. Added later. More from a friend on mind/body dualism. Added even later(!): Brain decoder can eavesdrop on your inner voice


He states: “...nothing special about human life.”
Yes, I agree with this scientifically but as a human would protect the life of a human over that of my cat, for instance.

He states “...no concept of “ought”. “
Why not?  I may get into this more when discussing Barns’ misunderstanding of evolution, so briefly:
Game theory shows how various strategies, often tested in game playing, can improve success.  It seems obvious that selfish people or cheaters will succeed over altruistic, honest people, but many iterations of game theory show this is not so or not always so.  Behavior can be built into genes.  The best way to live a long, healthy life is to be honest and altruistic.

He states “there is no such thing as “mind”.”
See above.

“What is God like?
Barnes offers quotes from the Bible, which are clearly evidence of nothing.
From my introduction:
His evidence and claims for God come exclusively from the Bible.  That can be a valid source but it needs both internal and external confirmation.  In other texts, internal confirmation requires two parts. First a quote from a character, “I am strong”. and second, a described instance of the character being strong.  In the Bible, God is described as perfect and merciful but also as driving Adam and Eve out of Eden in a rage and destroying most of humanity.  Considering that he made Adam and Eve, the fact that he became angry with their actions is a logical as me being angry with a wood carving I made and found wanting.

External confirmation relates to finding supporting evidence for the Bible’s claims in other sources.  This kind of confirmation can be challenging.  Yes, Egypt is mentioned in the Bible and in other sources, but London is mentioned in Harry Potter and in other sources.  No, it is the extraordinary claims that need support and in many cases such support does not exist.

These two forms of confirmation are entirely absent from The Dawkins Proof.

“It is not surprising, then, that all cultures are theistic in some way.”

It is not clear where this assertion comes from.  Here is a valid idea of why cultures start with some degree of theism:   Some few hundred years ago, there was no explanation for disease and afflictions like Bell’s Palsy, rainbows, rainfall and weather patterns, or lightning.  Many gods from many different cultures have been given the power to use lightning.  Now, we cannot say that God does not personally control all lightning bolts but we can say He is unnecessary. See also: "I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence."- Doug MacLeod

Indeed, it is not at all surprising that cultures start with a theistic bent, but that is evidence of nothing.

Thursday 4 April 2013

Just a theory - misused words in science

Scientific American discusses 7 words used by scientists that are often misused or misunderstood by lay-people.
From "Hypothesis"
A hypothesis is a proposed explanation for something that can actually be tested. But "if you just ask anyone what a hypothesis is, they just immediately say 'educated guess,'" Allain said.
The key difference seems to be a hypothesis is not merely "an educated guess" (three words) but "an educated guess that can be tested." (four more words).

Richard Hoppe, at Panda's Thumb, gives an example that explains the difference.  First, he quotes Professor Behe that an experiment testing an Intelligent Design claim could be tested- sounds like a hypothesis, right?  But then Hoppe notes that Behe states we can know nothing about the Designer and Its abilities.  He then imagines the experiment runs its course and bacteria flagellum appear...
. Does that mean that evolution works and ID is “disproven”? Not at all. After all, since we know nothing about the skill set and intentions of the putative designer(s), it’s possible that the designer(s) somehow ‘watched’ our culture, and sometime during the course of the generations ‘reached’ in and poofed a flagellum into existence on one of the bacteria.

  We can see that Behe claim is more of an "educated guess" than a hypothesis as it is not testable  - the results would always be inconclusive.

I honestly do feel that it was an educated guess rather than a wish, hope or dream, which terms my cynical side wanted me to use.

Anyway, the other terms and their misuses interested me as well.